THE 'SAVE KERALA' INITIATIVE

THE 'SAVE KERALA' INITIATIVE

Tuesday, October 31, 2006

Kerala This Week, Vol 3, 2006

First things first.. Happy Kerala Day!

Kerala celebrates its 50th year of formation. And I guess most Keralites, like me, hope it will also be an year of transformation. I can already sense some kind of effort, atleast mental, gaining momentum among the new generation, an effort stemming from years of political slavery and unfavorable social circumstances. I hope the efforts collectively translate into something worthwhile, so we dont have to wait another 50 years.

P.M. Manmohan Singh has arrived in Kerala to join the rest of us in the celebrations. As always, the people expect some "sops" and "announcements" from the PM, and this time in terms of clearance for Vizhinjam Port, more financial assistance for the farmers (wonder who "ate" the previous assistances), the much-debated IIT in Kerala (time to restart the Kochi versus Trivandrum bout!!), upgradation of Trivandrum International Airport ( a plan thats been planned since 1990's, meanwhile there have been demands to have airports at Kottayam, Tiruvalla, Kannur, Wayanad and almost one in every other district! Also I hear that the design currently approved for the airport will not be enough to handle the traffic and volume by the time the airport is finally completed!) and more PSUs in the state (so we can have more unions and strikes), among other declarations.

In return, the people of Kerala (actually just one gentleman did the honor) offered an email threat to the P.M.. The gentleman also remembered President Kalam just in case he also decided to pop by at the party. Later the cops found out that the threat was actually all for the sake of his love lost, and in return he found that all is not fair in love and war.

But security continued to be at an unprecendented level, mainly to ensure that the P.M and other dignitaries dont get bitten by mosquitoes. After all we are still not sure why people in Kerala are dying : Chikungunya? Dengue? Viral disease? Malaria? Liver cirrhossis? Endosulfan? Coke? Pepsi? Possibilities are too many!

The honorable PM is joined in celebration, which apparently is going to be a month-long event, by none other than the newly appointed Defence Minister A.K. Antony ( Yes, defence minister of India! surprise surprise! so much that someone quipped online he is the best defence minister as he is very good in self-defense) and also the great M.P from Trivandrum, "the Anniyan", who decided to gift the people of Trivandrum his presence and sight on this great day ( One funny thing about Mr.Pan is that every time he visits Trivandrum, which is once every 3 months, he gives a speech warning the central government for its anti-Kerala and anti-Trivandrum policies.. but then he disappears for a couple of months to Delhi and hangs out with the very central government there doing nothing..Apparently the Delhi weather is good for his hair) and ofcourse, the enitre coterie of the state government machinery.

Our Chief is undecided whether to smile or not, especially since he will be sharing the stage with "bourgeois"! Another minister has decided he will just sleep through the function. Other ministers are not sure about attending the function as they are still learning about their assigned portfolios from the respective secretaries. Ex Minister Joseph is reportedly unhappy about the seating arrangement, as they have seated him away from all things..you know. And also kept all microphones away from him, just in case he decides to sing instead of ..you know.

The press continued to play spoilsport with all sorts of messed-up reports continuing as headlines.. A leading City edition of an English daily reported in front page on how Condoms are choking the drainage pipes of leading IT companies (wonder why media is always hellbent on such propoganda..I wonder if there is any truth in such crappy reports, and it sounds more of a sales pitch than anything else. I am sure there is nothing new going on in IT companies. And if at all its true, it must be that more people have begun to use condoms, unlike yesteryears when the same things happened in any other office or neighbourhood without condoms. Anyway I am sure it was thrilling news for the majority of the jobless in the state). And on the same day another Malayalam daily applauded the IT gains of the state with the headline "Technoparkil Adambara karukalude melam" (which translates into : IT guys are just freaking out in posh cars, what the hell are all non-IT people doing?). Meanwhile another paper reported on how CPM who continuously opposed the Smart City project is now in discussion with the promoters for a stake in the project! (blimey!) Yet another report brought out the dismal presence of Brand IT-Kerala in the just concluded BangaloreIT.in. So much for IT friendliness and IT promotion!!

Meanwhile, bus and lorry operators denounced the governments decision to curb their rights to mow down smaller cars, motorcyclists and pedestrians. They termed the decision of the government to implement mandatory "speed-governors" on their vehicles as a direct threat to their fundamental right to overspeed and kill. The All-Kerala-Heavy Vehicles-Employees-Union Secretary in a statement pounced on the state government and said the state already has a governor. They have begun an "indefinite strike" and with public transport already crippled, the state is in a grave situation. With half the state flooded with incessant rains, publich transport was the only mode of transport safe to get across from one point to another. Now thats also gone.. The government quickly decided to give more thrust to the Inland Waterways project, considering that most of the state is perpetually under water nowadays. And luckily enough, the tourism department conducted the Kerala Boat Show at the appropriate time. They are even planning an exchange offer: "exchange your Maruti for a boat".

Meanwhile, the official website of the Kerala Government now displays this message:

"November 1st is the 'Keralappiravi day'. Kerala State came into existence on 1st November 1956. In this regard the State Government has organised 50day's celebrations. The Ministry of Kerala is trying to reach new heights with novel ways of administration. Peoples' grievances are being sorted out by the sincere efforts of the Government. "

Good grief!! As much as I would like to write more on the above, I will save it for another day, another post..Lets all save ourselves for now.. Save Kerala! Let me go wish her a wonderful birthday and a great future!

31 comments:

Anonymous said...

funny mc..happy kerala day.

silverine said...

That was one hell of a post!! Awesome!! You have wapped up the whole sordid mess so neatly (!!)

I think God has also quit his own country like his bretheren and left the shores in search of better opportunities! From your description things seems a royal mess! Sad for Kerala, sad for the ordinary Malayalee.

Wishing Keralam, prosperity, good governance and better sense ASAP.

Tomorrow is Karnataka Diwas.

abhishek said...

Hahahhaha.

"A leading City edition of an English daily reported in front page on how Condoms are choking the drainage pipes of leading IT companies"

What were they doing poking there in the first place? Wow..."sting" journalism has taken on a whole new meaning in Kerala.

quills said...

So funny! :)

Well written too. It reminds me of a show I used to wait for eagerly back in the day.. Prannoy Roy's The World This Week. Nicely sums up the state of our State.

Anyway like you said, hope this would be an year of transformation inspite of voting people like Panniyan and other such colorful characters to power. And we have to realize that we cannot depend on anybody else to make the changes for us, but we ourselves have to do it. Start perhaps by getting rid of our narrow mindset..

Kuttan said...

Happy Kerala day all. God If I had the right connections I could have had an airport in my backyard as well.

Jiby said...

haha...that was a funny yet informative take on all thats been happening at home. if u make it a regular feature i'd rather discontinue reading newspapers!

Happy Kerala Piravi Day...it certainly was a happy day for us in college...all of us wearing mundu and the gals decked in set sarees!

hope manmohan clears vizhinjam asap.

maverick said...

sarcastic yet true...this is one gem of a post. U have said summarized almost all the problems plaguing kerala. Hope her b'day will be a turning point.

മല്ലു ഫിലിമ്സ് said...

Happy Kerala day for you too!

Mind Curry said...

@ anonymous - thanks, same to you again.

@ silverine - wrapped up the sordid mess neatly..lol..thats awesome! not the post!

hope god returns soon..

happy kerala day and happy karnataka rajyotsava...and also happy birthday bengalooru!!

:)

@ abhishek - yeah, this is more like "stink" journalism. but thats what has maximum readers in kerala..i still hear people discussing the topic.

@ quills - prannoy roy! man..thats such a flattering comment! :)

you said it about the mindset! wish we could send some electromagnetic pulse across kerala that washes peoples brains out!

@ kuttan - kuttan international terminal is not an impossible dream!

@ jiby - lol..thanks buddy..so sweet of you..

yeah i remember one such piravi day in school..my mundu came off! that was the first and last time i wore the mundu!

@ maverick - thanks dear..i hope so too..

@ mallu films - same to you

Babin said...

Good One Mind! Had a good laugh reading this post:)

My best wishtes to Mallu Land on behalf of All Kerala Save Kerala Union:)

mathew said...

nice take man..so sarcastic but true..we can just wait and dream that something sensible happens in our state..

PCM said...

A wonderful analysis. Now you know the reason why the State still wallows in the gutters. The media have a gutter instinct which makes them see only the stinking side of things. The Government wants to do something, but doesn’t know what to do. Each Minister makes a grand announcement everyday, soon to be forgotten.
In my opinion, people are of three kinds – those who can do things, those who would destroy everything and those who do not bother about whatever happens. They can be described as Constructive, Destructive and Apathetic. The LDF thrived on their ability to pull down all that was constructive, but now when in power, fumble all the while. The Media believe that people are on the lookout for the dirty and the filthy – and they fill the pages with such things. Such is our fate. There is no one to think of good things and progress, and none to execute. We will wait apathetically till the next elections to bring the other party to power.

Prasanth said...

Awesome post. Especially liked the part about Bus and Lorry strike.

Nidhin said...

@ Mind Curry
I don't find any greatness about your post as others have applauded you. These are some of the very few recent issues you have pointed out. There are many others which we can point. The recent Chiken Guniya problem which caused lots of contoverseys recently -- it was not finalised that it was due to chiken gunia the numerous deaths happened.Why within this special period of time so many people died and doctors not able to diagnise the exact problem.They say its fever.. anyway we can have relief seeing the measures taken by Kudumbasree and various students organisations after this.Even Government had come up with striong cleaning programmes through out Kerala. But not only givernment each and every citizen should take acre responsiblity to make sure their surroundings are clean.Either they can do themselves or inform corporation about this from now on.
One thing u pointed that we have elected so many strong leaders to Centre and they are unable to make impact on matters regarding Kerala.Our ministers have been trying in the centre to rause the voices concerning Kerala and also our government have been pressrusing Central givernmnet on various issues and even slowly many issues are getting recognised. One thing which is seriously to be noted is that Kerala is given the least priority when it comes to issues to be discussed in Centre . Denial of Vizhinjam project since Chinese consortium hgas taken this project is sometthing which has no logic. Our dear PM is ready to sign Nuclear Agreement with US but is afraid of China.....
One of the excellent Policies has been the People Planning which was brought by LDF Govt in 1996. This is a great idea and if executed properly will benifit the society a lot and it will also touch each and evry citizen's problems .But unfortunately this has been exectued improperly and the recent reports show almost 22.7 Crores rupees are wasted because of IMPROPER PLANNING and Corruption.
Many projects decided with great expectations are left half way. These are all causing the common wealth to fade away. One of the main reasons I find in this People are not interested about what all are going on around them There are people (like us) who discuss almost every problem but become lazy when it comes to exceute things. Most of us may be outside Kerala and may be busy , but those who are in Kerala should time find to interact in social causes. People Planning is one of the programmes in which each and every common person will have the right to know of every single details of how to utlise the money given to Gram Sabha. But most of the people are not ready to take part in this and then blame the people who take responsiblity. May be the people taking responsiblity are not capable, or may be the people are doing small coruupotions or projects are failing because of otehr reaons but if every people take part in Gram Sabha this wud have been a great success. So we should not just blame government and officials always , we should try to do our part also .
Pinne as far as Kudumba Sree is concerned ,it has been a great success , many financially poor ladies have been able to earn their own and take care of their family.
In the last 50 years if we see kerala's development Caste discrimination is erased almost completely , even other states where they say high developments are there , still caste discrimination exists. We have reached 100% literarture , and even we don't have nough opportunites in Kerala , people are able to get jobs anywhere in the world becasue of our skills.
But still Sheduled Tribes are still not at all developed.This is one area everyone should look.Governemnt should introduce more reform methods to ensure those who are financially and economically back for decades should be given special attention for the studies of their children from the very primary level till graduation.This is because their parents may not be aware of the education and job benifits etc..
REC Calicut has recently come with a very great idea of identifying capable DALIT students and training them in soft skills, techinal skills etc and there have been some very high results...
The Corruption which happened in "Bhavan Niramana Vakuppu" (Maithri Project) and the taxes pending to be collected for Housing , both add to a huge amount.Dr .Thomas Isaas told we are in very high financial crisis and within the limitations he came up with a great budget. Now for development projects government is going to take 300 Crore Rs from bank adding to the point that our treasury is already empty.The 300 Rs .which we are going to take is for very genuine case only , but the amount which had to go to government treasury from the Maithri Project and Housing were misusued.Those invovlved in these should be brought to light through thorough investigation and the amount should be made to paid by these corrupted people.These amount itself will add to a huge amount.Also Devasom Board had done huge corruoptions.These amounts are all actually meant to benoft for the people which are being wasted.All allegations come, contriversies come but actions are pended by court ,it may take years by the time the hotness of these cases go. The jurisdiction is something which has to be enhanced very highly. Not only in Kerala the whole of India Jurisdiction has been very bad in the late years.
The suicide of farmers are still going on.Many farmers are still suiciding and one thing Central government is ignoring state governmnets demand for better package for farmers.We should fight agaisnt this and members from Kerala in Lok Sabha should bring this issue very seriously. Also a detailed study should be done regarding why agricultural land is not able to be made profitable and steps should be taken on this.A high expertise study should be made to provide more help for traditional farmers. Proper loans with minimum interest should be given to farmers , at low level also there should be some mechanism to make sure the farmer is finally getting all these benifits and also his wokers and no corruption is happening in middle.The differnece between the value of the production and what is sold in market should be minimised so that farmers get benifits and middle people get the least. The central governments policy on reducing tariff on foreign agricultural products should be increased.Other wise it is Kerala's farmers who are going to suffer the most with this.
As you know the present Central government is mainly focussing on inviting foreign investments and privitisations even in our traditional agriculture.This will become a great threat to our existing itself.The reason the government is saying is to increase the the revenue.
Aren't there other simple methods which would not cause harm to normal people. There are many unused land with the government , some times this may be given to private firms .
Can't governmnet start some policy like alloting this land to the numerous people in Slums , to the sheduled tribes??? As all of you know today buying a piece of land has almost become impossible.In this situation , can't the governmnet sell these unused land to common people at a cost based on the annual income of those who are buying.This will increase the income of government and also will be useful for people.They could also give the land to private firms with a price based on the income of these firms and their background.Can't government formulate some policies. There are many unused land all over . This is my view and I suggest something similar is taken by party which could be executed by government so that additional revenue could be made from the unsuable land which will be profitable for government and for common man.
VS had previously opposed Smart City and now trying to bring this .Everyone will be thinking the double way he is accepting.UDF was trying to give the land cheaply , when still most(more than 60%) of our people are suffering without land , how can this be made possible.also they wanted inforpark.Now smarty city will be coming with Info park also existing and also the land given at market price. If UDF decided 20000 per cent LDF is planning for 40000 per cent. The only confusion now is whether to aloow DIC as an independent company or with government also having half the shares so that we will have a good control over this.DIC has plans like government having around 10% shares , I think having 10% shares also will give full control over DIC only .
Whats your opinion about this should it work independtly or should Govt have equal shares with control over it?????? Because of these form decisions by governmnet the discussions are further getting delayed.
Also the move from LDF governmnet regarding the finance bill which unfortunately was a failure this time wasa indeed a great step. providing reservation with creamy layer concept for low caste and also giving reservation to financially backward to high caste is indeed agreta step and hope this is implemented next year.Anyway we some what came out of the clutches of the last governmnets of 50% merit and 50% payment were merit seat also had to pay huge amounts.
Friends there are many other situations also which we can anlayse wnd let this discussion be more fruitful rather than just be cause of discussion.

Nidhin said...

@Everyone

Guys I have so far been seeing many replies like applauses from everyone when one post comes.Also in every post you will be saying lets make this a success etc.
When I put forward some serious social issues we are facing no one is ready to discuss about them.This is what i have beensaying in other posts also guys like you all are saying lets do lets do , but when some valid points I put none of u are interested in discussing , all of you are just interesting in praising each other and praising your blog........
I though u guys had some fire in u...

abhishek said...

@Nidhin

are you interested in being a contributor? Not sure of what you think of what we are about, but let us know if you believe that change is necessary in Kerala and what kind of change do you want.

If you look back at the mission statement of this blog, the point is to invite all writers and readers who believe that something is wrong is Kerala and change is required.

Nidhin said...

@Abhishek

First of all i hope i put forward some of serious issues today, and no one discussed on that and apart asked another question about my motive. ok i will sum up my points below.
1)There needs to some changes in the society definitely but why we have to form a different system altogether , why can't we make changes in the existing sytem????
2)Even if you form the new system the present evils like Blade Mafia,Charayam Mafia,Vanam mafia , Gunda sangangal exists...... how are you going to change that?????
3)The government officials are doing corruption how you wil reduce that???????
4)Many citizens are not paying tax Many are buying and selling lands not in a straight manner but indirectly showing false amounts.Many are not properly paying ater , electricity bills and escaping .. How will you reduce all these?????????
5)The globalisation is so far concentrating money in the hands of few.It is not reaching the nedy sectin.How you are going to eliminate these???????
6)Sex scandals involving many poor and young girls still continuing.How you are going to eliminate these???
7)The Jurisdiction is taking huge time for highly critical cases to solve then we can imagine the case for ordinary people.How you are going to change these???????
8)The funds are sometimes not spend in an economical and proper way causing huge amount of funds to be wasted unnecessarily.How you are going to reduce these????????
First i would like to know how you are going to find remedeis for above 8 points.Please give reply for each point seperately.
I want areply because I believe in the present LDF givernment and all the points are in the governmnet's agenda.If you guys have better alternatives for these problems then definitely i would like to change my view towards yours. That is why i have been asking questions but so far you guys have been beating round the bush. I hope this time I would get a reply since i mentioned some points explicitly.
The LDF government is trying to make changes altogether as u said a change is necessary but they have just started only.But if u guys have more valuable solutions definitely i would like to support you.But first i need answers. Pls dont answer like "we dont have time" ,"my questions are not sensible" ,"go back and read our previous posts" ,"if u dont want to be with us go to hell" , instea pls take each of the above points and give solution for each as u wud do when u form a new system.
Ithallathe marupadi ilalthe we have just begun ennu paryuvananekil that means you people have noidea just got fascinated by some idea ennalle???
I expect a good reply for my above points....

Mind Curry said...

@ nidhin - i am sure we can take these items (the useful ones) one by one, if we havent already done so. i repeat the useful ones because you have mentioned things like globalization and its elimination, which is what you call narrowmindedness. we will try and discuss the benefits of globalization, and also the means to protect interests of small scale operators - that makes more sense than elimination - and elimination was what was attempted in case of the colas.

but let me emphasize another thing..the most important step in making these changes is a change in mentality. we should all be ready to move out of our fixed ideas - it applies for you and for me. and in this context, the most important thing i see is to spread awareness about issues. and that is the most important thing we are trying to do here on this blog. and not being able to make visible changes right away should not be seen as a failure.

abhishek said...

@Nidhin

Appreciate you putting your points in bullet format because it spells out your concerns much clearer than your earlier posts. Believe me, we were not ignoring you. It's just difficult to address something that is convoluted. But now things are much clearer and easier to debate.

I can answer your first question right now because I'm not sure where you get the impression that we are advocating a revolt to upturn the entire system. Also, please clarify what you mean by "system".

In my article on bandhs and hartals, I would like to point out that I am categorically against such mechanisms. It doesn't matter whether the majority of the people are behind an issue, or whether a bandh seems "peaceful". I am fundamentally opposed to them because they inherently convey coercion, i.e. force people to shut down operations for a day through implicit, subtle threat of force. This isn't a problem restricted to Kerala, because as you may have noticed during the traders' strikes in Delhi, several buses were restricted violently from operating. However, bandhs and hartals occur in Kerala and W. Bengal much more frequently than anywhere else in India. I believe that my fundamental opposition to the so-called "right" to bandh is the only action that I have promoted so far in this blog. I have yet to take on the whole government. Now, you say system. I think you should draw a line between society and government.

Because we elect our representatives to the government, we have the right to expect a certain standard of performance from them. To me, carrying out hartals and bandhs is in itself a despicable act that is equivalent to restricting people's freedom of movement. If those we elect to our government carry on such activities, I would find it very difficult to view them in a "fatherly" role.

You compare the role of the government to its people as a father to its children. I also have a fundamental issue with this role, because it is a very condescending potrayal of what the "children" aka "society" is capable of, and lowers our expectations of our elected representatives. We don't elect these people to run our daily lives or guide us to our goals. We elect them so that they provides us with the right public goods, whether that be, infrastructure which includes health centers, roads, water, etc or any other service that requires a level of organization beyond that which a city or a town is capable of by itself. We don't elect them to tell us what they think is good for us. We should already know what that is. We are better off thinking of the government as a "service provider" and as a "unifier" rather than a "caretaker".

The danger with viewing the government as the latter is that it can very easily turn on you. I have an analogy to present here. Consider Donald Rumsfield, the former Defense Secretary in the U.S. Upon his exit a few days ago, the man claimed that he was leaving behind a "little-understood, unfamiliar war-- the first war of the 21st century." Inherent in that statement is the notion that he believes he knows what is best for the American people and specifically only he knows what is best. That is an incredibly arrogant, egoistic position for any person, let alone a civil servant and it is a miracle that he stayed as long as he did. That's because he believes he is a father figure rather than a civil servant. And that element is present in all of our politicians be it Karunakaran or VS. Karunakaran dragged his children into politics and I wouldn't be surprised if one day we can read peoples' minds, and discover that Karunakaran believed that only his family was worthy of leading Kerala and only he knew what was best for them. For now, at least his actions say so. VS condones the mob violence carried out by youth organization activists during the Coca-Cola ban, saying that they were "naughty". Doesn't that strike you of behaviour that a father says of his children? I have no problem with a father who says that of his infants, because children don't know better. But adults should know that violence is not an answer to anything and that it should not be tolerated. Now, had VS said, "If there is evidence of violence, they will be prosecuted like anyone else," then I would have much more respect for the man. But, what can you say for a man who indulged in similar activities as recent as 2001. By now, I should have convinced you that I am fundamentally opposed to violence.

You have provided a number of issues to ponder and they're all valid points to discuss. Unfortunately, they're also rather big issues to handle. I have been mulling some of these issues independently in my head over the last couple of days and will present my answers to some of your questions in upcoming posts. However, I need to write them in a cogent, coherent way and as always, need some time for that. Arguments are best presented when they're backed with data and data's not the easiest thing to gather on Kerala.

Nidhin said...

@Mind curry
I told you globalisation has some serious problems in my points. I didn't mention to eliminate it completely . Todays right leaders are completely trying bring globalisation to its fore front and that will affect the lives of normal people. As what you said "and also the means to protect interests of small scale operators " . It is not ending here many of the policies of views of rightists are hurting people.
If you want we can take globalisation and disciss the merits and demerits in a new post and comeout with sensible solutions....

Nidhin said...

@Abhishek

What I mean by System is the entire sytem consisting of governmnet, people,beaurocrats.There is no need to draw a line between society and governmnet coz governmnet is peoples representatives who are people only. It is because everyone is drawing aline that system is moving away from its right objectives and Leftists always try to reduce this line.
I just drew an analogy between society and our family.If you consider governmnet as service porovider in some cases it holds good ,other cases it doesn't hold good.In cases like sex scandals,gundaism,mafia etc if givt acts as service provider ,there the notion of elusive nature as u told arise in politicians and thats the point where original politics come.
Finally you mentioned your point straight away that you dont support any kind of violence..Good Gandhian way. But friend i not at all accept Gandhian way.If our concerns and needs are ignored by givernemnt only through violence we can make the govt accept.It is human nature.Only when chaos created media hype govt will be forced to acceot needs if they are VALID.if they are not valid even people won't support them.
One issue recently in Appolo Hospital in Hyderabad , a 21 year old boy studying engineering who has gone to undergo treatment for fever , his both kidneys were removed and he died. students created some hype for first 2 days and hospital mangement bribed the boys family and the issue closed.
This is not a single incident this is occuring randomly in the so called developed cities of India , but am sure this is occurig least in Kerala .These are all because of the social awareness and protest nature oi people.It is because of the Harthals and Strikes which people do till the victim gets justice that a doctor in private hopsital in Kerala doesn't dare to do such a thing even if he might do it in other states. That is my point. Anyway you are so atatched to non violence concept , that only when some incident happens to you you will realise the flaws. I wasn't am not teasing you , but its afact that you guys never had to face serious issues till now or you your still very much far away from the reality hapening in the society , which is why you have this concept.
One good example It is because of Gandhi's non violence nature we waited till British looted most of our wealth .It was not an independence which we got but something they gave us when they found us useless. Again i am not devitaing original topic but giving diofferent sides of the coin so that you cna correlate with the original issue.

Nidhin said...

@Abhishek

I have mentioned my points in the post "How Bandhs and Harthals hijacked our state" ---> I think we can discuss this issue seperately there so that otehr issues will be relevant here .
Hope you come to that post and discuss with me regarding "Harthals and Bandhs".

Mind Curry said...

@ nidhin - since you seem to have a wealth of knowledge on globalizations plus and minus, i invite you to write an article and mail it to me. we shall post it if it makes sense or atleast a discussion ground for both of us.

Nidhin said...

@mind curry

What you mean by that friend , i have to get your permission whether that makes sense?????????????
From now on in all posts i will try to praise evry single post irrespective if what my views are . will it be ok for you.????? Also i will reply to posts supporting righists , i think that would make you more happy.
One more thing I have very little knowledge of globalisation and other things happening in society.Only the small things i know i posted here ,and I expected god replies from sensible people from you who are having extensive knowledge of evrything so that I could improve my knowledge of social relevance.But everything i am getting the exact response from you which UDF governmnet shows(beating round the bush).

Mind Curry said...

@ nidhin - i am now unclear what your intentions are..if its just to make silly comments without any substance then i am sorry we have to just ignore you henceforth.

i just used your own words and invited you to post here:

If you want we can take globalisation and disciss the merits and demerits in a new post and comeout with sensible solutions....

you said the above..and you said you wanted to discuss globalisation..and to come up with sensible solutions.. now you say you have little knowledge about it..and you are latching onto the sensibility. we will publish articles here only when they have some standard and ofcourse sense..else we can discuss it over email at leisure depending on our convenience.

if you have something good and worth discussing please let us know, and you are more than welcome..else save us the trouble of wasting our energies. we are not going to waste anymore time with this petty arguments without substance. the decision is yours.

Reeba said...

Hi Everyone ,

This discussion is reaching no where. It is the first time I am seeing some strong critism from someone.I think Nidhin is hard core Leftist and he has doubts the ability of the blog owners . Also mindcurry if because of criticism you are ignoring someone I think that is not fair since it will become one sided , some points I find very sensible and I could find no one was able to reply him properly.Other thing Nidhin is also trying to criticize all the time and trying to fight.But I still believe for none of the critisms he raised , everyone gave vague replies only.

Nidhin said...

@Mind Curry

I first asked you that we could discuss globalisation as a seperate topic.I didn't tell i have vast knowledge on that , still telling with my limited knowledge i could find the harmful effeects more than the good aspects.I would like to discuss so u could explain the very good aspects.How is this silly comment.So is it like you discuss with people with high knowledge.
Also i know how much ur knowledge level is when you are finding difficult to answer me.What will you do when a true Leftist with enough vision about the ideology comes???????
I didn't abuse anyone ,I didn't say any irrelevant comments, just asked some queries about what you really want to do and how?????Also I supported Leftist visions because none of you could say how it is flawless when I ask something.You couldn't answer and so if you are ignoring me because of this it is your wish since this is your blog and here freedom of speech is not present.Only those who praise here can keep posting .

Nidhin said...

@ reeba
When did I fight??I am ususally a very intolerant person acting hastily and I am 100% sure I maintained my tolerance and just asked questions which I amsure are sensible. Only through criticism the best comes out of anybody , and also if proper replies are given to critics what will they ask.
Anyway I also think I am just keeping on posting comments and getting nothing back.Came with good expectations anyway.But I will continue posting for other topics if I am not ignored.
Reeba they are ignoring me because i criticised and others praised them.I see only me criticising ,I think they might have ignored others also who criticised.

abhishek said...

@Nidhin

“I just drew an analogy between society and our family.If you consider governmnet as service porovider in some cases it holds good ,other cases it doesn't hold good.In cases like sex scandals,gundaism,mafia etc if givt acts as service provider ,there the notion of elusive nature as u told arise in politicians and thats the point where original politics come.”

Please try to elaborate on this comment. It doesn’t make any sense the way you put it. Are you arguing that the government’s role as a service provider is what leads to scandals, gundaism and mafia? How do you come to that conclusion?

“Finally you mentioned your point straight away that you dont support any kind of violence..Good Gandhian way. But friend i not at all accept Gandhian way.If our concerns and needs are ignored by givernemnt only through violence we can make the govt accept.It is human nature.Only when chaos created media hype govt will be forced to acceot needs if they are VALID.if they are not valid even people won't support them.
One issue recently in Appolo Hospital in Hyderabad , a 21 year old boy studying engineering who has gone to undergo treatment for fever , his both kidneys were removed and he died. students created some hype for first 2 days and hospital mangement bribed the boys family and the issue closed. “

@Nidhin, you and I will never agree on this point. “If our concerns and needs are ignored by givernemnt only through violence we can make the govt accept.” I do not agree with this point at all – it’s the same argument that dictators use. Just take a look at the biggest blunder of the 21st century - the war in Iraq – which is the result of people ignoring diplomacy and resorting to war. You brought up the Apollo incident – I haven’t confirmed the veracity of this case. Even if we assume what you claim is true, what does the child’s family or any ordinary considerate human gain from engaging in violence? These are knee-jerk reactions that ignore the real problems with the system. The real issue is multi-fold: was it carelessness/greed/malice on the part of the doctors who treated the boy? Where is the evidence? If it was carelessness, how do you bring the accused to justice on the basis of criminal negligence? If it was greed, how do you bring the accused to justice on the basis of criminal charges? If the case does end up in the courts, will justice be thwarted (read…will there be corruption)? If there is, how can we ensure that it doesn’t happen? You might ask - what does the child’s family gain from all this even if justice is granted? Well, if they can’t take solace in the fact that justice was granted, then they are certainly not going to take solace in beating up the doctors. Because if justice is granted, but they resort to violence then they are no better than the doctors themselves. If justice is neglected, those are issues we have to take up with the justice system and not on the road, where innocent people could get hurt and the only thing that gets satisfied is the boiling blood of a few angry youths.

“Anyway you are so atatched to non violence concept , that only when some incident happens to you you will realise the flaws. I wasn't am not teasing you , but its afact that you guys never had to face serious issues till now or you your still very much far away from the reality hapening in the society , which is why you have this concept.”

@Nidhin…this is serious mud-slinging. I have seen this perk up repeatedly in your writings and thus far chosen to ignore the issue. But you are doing damage to your cause and I want to stop that because I want to find common ground. You love to attack our characters and experiences because you start with the assumption that we are very different people with different needs. Your views of what we represent are black and white. That is, you are the good guy and we are the bad guys. We are bad because according to you, we are naïve, wealthy, live in ivory towers and don’t understand what people need. As long as you believe that, you and us will never be able to agree on anything. I have never believed that you and I are different. I don’t believe that we are in different “classes”. As I remarked in one of my earlier posts, this is the language that the British brought to exploit our petty differences and divide us. It is the language that dictators use to make people ignore their real problems and spend their time fighting each other.

“It is because of Gandhi's non violence nature we waited till British looted most of our wealth .It was not an independence which we got but something they gave us when they found us useless. Again i am not devitaing original topic but giving diofferent sides of the coin so that you cna correlate with the original issue.”

@Nidhin…we waited, so that we could save millions of lives that could have been lost in a violent revolution. As a result, we had a silent revolution and kept our self-respect. Nidhin, we are the only nation in the world that can claim to have a higher moral ground than our conquerors exactly because Gandhi fought on the principles on non-violence. Gandhi came on the scene a little earlier than 1900. The British were around for about 250 years before that. What did our armies, i.e. the people who support violence, achieve until that point? Through Gandhi, the nation was able to discard the notion that people are born into classes and castes and seek out a place in a bigger scheme – the scheme that brought them to their feet. Sadly, we still have a lot of work to do if people continue perpetuating the notion that the so-called high class and middle class are exploiting the poor.

First, how you can draw a line between these classes? I have relatives who are poor and relatives who are rich. I don’t see any fighting between them. Because they realize that wealth is not just a state that you are born into, but is a security that you can build during your life. People don’t fall into economic classes because their income levels are graduated and not so clearly distinct. Let me pose a question – you have been arguing that the “middle class” (i.e. myself and MC) can never understand what the problems are of the poor. What if the poor become wealthier and fall into this “middle class”. Do they forget what it is to be poor – i.e. do they stop understanding what basic human needs are? I don’t believe so. They continue pursuing their self-interest as any sane person would. By drawing these artificial lines, you avoid answering the real question at the heart of the problem – how is wealth created? The answer is complicated, but the single best word I have to describe it is equitable freedom. Wealth can only be created in free and equal societies, not in closed societies. Whether societies remain closed to investment, capital or trade, the result is that they pay for it in terms of economic stagnation. In the end, the best measure of economic wealth is the amount of capital you can deploy per person. In that respect, Kerala would have to be called a closed society. This affects the state’s social well-being, because the majority of Kerala’s breadwinners have to look for work abroad, which hurts families by separating them.

Mind Curry previously argued that you should be prepared to be open-minded about certain ideas. But you have repeatedly demonstrated that you will never accept that we can understand what the real issues are. That is just willful malice and arrogance. If you really want to demonstrate that you are earnest about these issues, then focus on the quality of the argument and not on the quantity or the person behind it. Because a credible argument is a credible argument irrespective of who makes it. Remember we are discussing issues here, not the writer’s personality or tastes. Have you seen us picking on you and hurling accusations of “ignorant commie” or other such distasteful remarks? No, because that hurts our cause and our arguments. Notwithstanding the fact that it is probably not true.

Nidhin said...

@Abhishek
"“I just drew an analogy between society and our family.If you consider governmnet as service porovider in some cases it holds good ,other cases it doesn't hold good.In cases like sex scandals,gundaism,mafia etc if givt acts as service provider ,there the notion of elusive nature as u told arise in politicians and thats the point where original politics come.”

Please try to elaborate on this comment. It doesn’t make any sense the way you put it. Are you arguing that the government’s role as a service provider is what leads to scandals, gundaism and mafia? How do you come to that conclusion?" ----> What I meant is not govt acting as service provider leads to scandals,gundaism and mafia , that is poor understanding capability only thats all I can say.What I meant the feeling which People's representatives should have everything is their own and evrything is their responsibily, they shouldn't consider whatever they are doing as service.

"Nidhin, you and I will never agree on this point. “If our concerns and needs are ignored by givernemnt only through violence we can make the govt accept.” I do not agree with this point at all – it’s the same argument that dictators use. Just take a look at the biggest blunder of the 21st century - the war in Iraq – which is the result of people ignoring diplomacy and resorting to war. "---> Friend I didnt go into the details of what I am saying thinking u cid understand and u guys dont need spoon feeding of evry sentence.Just look at my sentence if our needs are ignored that too by all means , violent methods or actions have to be taken for the govt or whoever ruling to accept or make them accept.Otherwise the condition of India after it got independence in 1947 it wud be.People has to revolt oppose all anti govt officials if necessary violently so that it hyped and others who are not at all affected also thinks what ever is going on(that too only if the people are socially aware and cares to lokk into other issues also) .
Now coming to Appolo incident see this link http://www.thehindu.com/2006/10/31/stories/2006103117010400.htm .
It is not by carelessness but purposefully(who would take 2 kidneys by carelessness ).Also u doubted whther I am telling the truth ,I am not the kind of person to win some debate give incidents from vacuum .Also you are contradicting my statements.I told resorting to violent methods and protests is when justice is denied or ignored.if justice is granted and not given after enough time then?(Try to understand the case ignored)Sagar Apollo case was initially itslef Justice is denied completely.I would say even if the family is bribed , students or other social orgnaisations should have protetsed and taken it to streets.Also violence is not like doing some violent things and leave it half way they should fight till end.

@Abhishek
"You love to attack our characters and experiences because you start with the assumption that we are very different people with different needs. Your views of what we represent are black and white. That is, you are the good guy and we are the bad guys. We are bad because according to you, we are naïve, wealthy, live in ivory towers and don’t understand what people need. As long as you believe that, you and us will never be able to agree on anything. I have never believed that you and I are different. I don’t believe that we are in different “classes”. "
You are completely mistaken my friend.It is you who istrying to keep a line.I am aperson believing in bringing the society to the concept "Common ownership of Public property" . Why I mentioned is since you people have enjoyed benifits you are not able to understand or think in the angle of the needy section.Thats all.I never tried to attack your characters , but I tried to make you realise there are people who are in majority in the society who have needs,who are ignored in different cases and when we think in their perspective of what to do then only the real aim of society cleaning or social service acheievs its meanings. I have friends who are left leaning ones but dont follow any of the leftist policies even in their life.I dont consider them Leftists.There are people with very goood knowledge about the ideology but not following it , they have knowledge but they waste half of their salary (say 6000) in liqour and other posch things which are UNNECESSARY(see i mentioned unnecessary)This is another concept consumerism.So even if that person supports ideology I am a person believing he is useless since he is completely violating it since even if he spends 3000 monthly to the needy that would be agreat relief. So dont think everyone is blind folded. I want you people to think in other angles also.That is why I came up with globalisation earlier , because according to you it may be irrelevant.But it is utmost relevant friend.Globalisation is an international concept aimed at increasing profit for the owner internationally and not increasing "PRODUCTION" .It is profit.The after effect is profits getting concetrated in 10% of the population. It is not reaching the 90%.But I am not telling no globalisation , we are caught in this trap so it is upto government to make its own policies and laws in its own country to overcome the bad effects casuing in that country. Ither main thing I want to tell is the IT people mainly who are getting profited because of the companies coming here are not even 30% .I was just trying to make you understand. anyway if you thought i am attacking then did yu think why I am regulary posting replies, dont i have any othet job rather than keep on blabbering or what benifits i will get if i prove your points wrong and then go?????????

"Nidhin…we waited, so that we could save millions of lives that could have been lost in a violent revolution. As a result, we had a silent revolution and kept our self-respect. Nidhin, we are the only nation in the world that can claim to have a higher moral ground than our conquerors exactly because Gandhi fought on the principles on non-violence. Gandhi came on the scene a little earlier than 1900. The British were around for about 250 years before that. What did our armies, i.e. the people who support violence, achieve until that point? Through Gandhi, the nation was able to discard the notion that people are born into classes and castes and seek out a place in a bigger scheme – the scheme that brought them to their feet. Sadly, we still have a lot of work to do if people continue perpetuating the notion that the so-called high class and middle class are exploiting the poor. "
250 years before India was completely under kingly rule.They were unable to realise the intentions of British.By the time they realised they started getting defeated or accpet british rule.Gandhi was not an evil man i would say.He had good aim at Indian independece but his way and vision was wrong.One thing I consider as his great ability is his ability to gather masses. But by resorting to non violence we keep losing our wealth.Even if can just say we got indenpendence.even after 50 years socialy backward people have come up butnot enough.Ravolutionary leaders like Bhagath singh were not terrorists as Gandhi would say.They were trying acheive indepence in all sense.Not only independence from british,but independence from caste discriminations and all exploitations in society.You said millions of lives were saved , what man through diorect killing many lives were gone and because of the divide and rule we fought each other and died.How Gandhi could stop this.Bhagth singh was trying to convey that brtish want us to fight each other and we should stand as one.unfortunatley Gandhi made him terrorist in front of masses and for masses Gandhi was not less athan God.If Gandhi was capable what about division of India????????? It is not worthy talking about this now but just want to clear your other way of perception .

" People don’t fall into economic classes because their income levels are graduated and not so clearly distinct. Let me pose a question – you have been arguing that the “middle class” (i.e. myself and MC) can never understand what the problems are of the poor. What if the poor become wealthier and fall into this “middle class”. Do they forget what it is to be poor – i.e. do they stop understanding what basic human needs are?" --> very relevant point Abhishek.If people who were poor becomes rich MAJORITY of the time they tend to forget the needs of poor even if they know they ignore.That is human nature- selfishness and it is because of this nature if something happens badly inthe soiciety we are unable to raise our voice because we will think we have family . I am not dividing the classes but the structure has to form in such a way where all of the people in society have "COMMON OWNER SHIP OF PUBLIC PROPERTY".
From ancient times people were not born with classes , the classes were formed sometimes by hard work(this is always supported) ,sometimes through luck,sometimes through exploitation,some times through capturing etc...........so people have to share public property , that is were human nature is overridden by the law of society.Classes , discrimination,anti social elements find it difficult to exist in such society so they have to change their nature.
I am not telling we don't want investments.But how to distribute profits and how to increase production through investment is what is important.

"Mind Curry previously argued that you should be prepared to be open-minded about certain ideas. But you have repeatedly demonstrated that you will never accept that we can understand what the real issues are. That is just willful malice and arrogance. If you really want to demonstrate that you are earnest about these issues, then focus on the quality of the argument and not on the quantity or the person behind it. Because a credible argument is a credible argument irrespective of who makes it. Remember we are discussing issues here, not the writer’s personality or tastes. Have you seen us picking on you and hurling accusations of “ignorant commie” or other such distasteful remarks? No, because that hurts our cause and our arguments. Notwithstanding the fact that it is probably not true."
See abhishek again I am telling i am not hurting anyone.telling my points it is upto you toaccept or not.But i was able to answer you in your perspective of writing , same way i also expect you to answer fromn my perspective.Such collective thinking and discussions only could yield good results.This is not any case of ego or to prove who is better but to eliminate the wrong ideas and views we have and also think in the correct way.
Hope Abhishek and Mind Curry I have tried my maximum to put my points exactly that you would understand .

Anonymous said...

Happy Kerala Piravi to everybody.

Regards
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